How To Sell (Or Buy) A Used Car Which Has A Lien - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
05/19/2016 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

So you want to buy or sell a car that has a lien on it? I get asked about this from time to time because it often snags an otherwise-good car sale.

Obviously, you have to remove the lien to sell the car (or to acquire it with good title). If the seller has the money to do that - no problem. But they often need the money from the sale to pay off the lien. That’s where it can get tricky.

And there are no great answers here. If they need your money to pay off the lien on the car you are buying, it may take some time. How much do you trust the seller?

There are a lot of ways this can go sideways or, heaven forbid, south (is there a difference?) but I try to cover all of the possibilities in this week’s podcast. At least, I cover as much as I can in 20 minutes.

Here is the audio:

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And the video.

And that handsome devil at the top? That’s me with the first copy of my latest book, Preston Tucker and His Battle to Built the Car of Tomorrow. Available soon at all fine booksellers (and signed from me. Stay tuned for details.)

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 24 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

DISCUSSION (97)

jimz > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 10:03

even if you do trade in a car with an outstanding lien on it to a “reputable” dealer, things can still go sideways. back in ~2003, I traded in my Ram on a new truck at a Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep dealer (named after a particular bridge to Canada.) I wasn’t upside-down on my trade in, the numbers all made sense, so I drove home in my new truck.

several months later, I go to the Apple store to buy an iBook, and since they were offering them on credit 6 months same-as-cash, I applied since I would pay it off well within that time. I was rejected due to poor credit history. Naturally this was a bit of a shock to me. So I pulled my credit reports from the three agencies. Both Equifax and Experian showed me as sparkling, basically the kind of borrower lenders fall over themselves to loan money to.

TransUnion, on the other hand, showed me as months delinquent in payments on the truck I had traded in. I have no idea where the ball got dropped in the systems, but the other two showed that loan account as closed: paid in full. And of course, TransUnion is the agency Apple queried when I went to buy the iBook.

it only took a few letters to TransUnion and DaimlerChrysler Financial to get it straightened out, but that kind of screw up could have been a real pain if I had been buying something substantial.

Urambo Tauro > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 10:04

If you own a vehicle and you pay the loan off... you might even want to go in to your state’s Secretary of State office (or DMV) and get the title re-issued clean, where it’ll actually not have a lien statement listed on it at all.

Totally agree. This simplifies the documentation, but that’s not the only benefit. As a buyer, I don’t like to see titles accompanied by a lien termination statement, because that document looks much easier to falsify than a certificate of title. A clean title makes me MUCH more comfortable.

SteveLehto > jimz
05/19/2016 at 10:08

And I have seen dealers take a few months to pay something off. They either “forgot” or they had cashflow problems.

SteveLehto > Urambo Tauro
05/19/2016 at 10:09

Did you actually quote something I SAID? Wow. A for effort!

And that’s true. The LTS on my last explorer was faxed to me and looked like something I could have whipped off in 10 minutes using a printer and some light photoshop.

Textured Soy Protein > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 10:12

In the past month I’ve both sold and bought used cars with liens on them.

I sold one where I had a loan through a local credit union and my buyer was paying me more than I owed. We met at the credit union, they gave a cashier’s check from their bank to the credit union, the credit union paid off the loan, gave me a lien release document, and a cashier’s check for what was left of the purchase price after paying off the loan. We then went to the DMV where they printed a title (I’m in Wisconsin and the state only gives you a paper title when there’s no lien) and I signed it over to the buyer. They paid sales tax to the DMV and got new plates to put on the car.

I bought a car from a guy in California where both he and I had loans through USAA. In this case, he was upside down and his payoff was higher than the purchase price. My loan got all squared away, but before funding my loan to pay off his loan, USAA said the seller had to first pay the difference between the payoff and purchase price. Once he did that, USAA paid off his loan with my loan, released the title to him to sign, which he then mailed to me. I arranged a transport truck to pick up the car and bring it to me in Wisconsin. I took the title to the DMV, paid sales tax, and got plates.

So, in my experience, it’s not terribly difficult, you just have to make sure you follow the processes of your particular state and whatever stuff your bank might need to do.

jimz > Urambo Tauro
05/19/2016 at 10:13

while that’s the best thing to do, I can’t imagine sellers would be very eager to set aside the time to sit with his/her thumb up you-know-where. The last time I actually had to go to a Secretary of State office (to get plates for my motorcycle) I was there for 2-1/2 hours.

all I can say is thank god for insurance PINs now.

Urambo Tauro > jimz
05/19/2016 at 10:26

Those PINs really do help to save the trip. But I’ve also been seeing other big improvements in SoS offices over the past few years. My last trip there found the place well-staffed and efficient; I waited about 5 minutes.

And some branches have that “MI-TIME Line” system where you can “get in line” remotely via text. They send you an estimated wait time, and text you every few minutes with updates as your turn approaches. I found their initial estimation remarkably accurate, even though I showed up a few minutes early anyway.

jimz > Urambo Tauro
05/19/2016 at 10:29

yeah, if you just need tags they even have those kiosks near the door. But if you need anything more than that, get in line. It didn’t help that the one I went to was the Dearborn one, and it was packed.

Mercedes Streeter > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 10:34

Squeeeeeeeeeee! Tucker book! :D

SteveLehto > Mercedes Streeter
05/19/2016 at 10:37

I should have a case of them in hand shortly. When I do, I will do what I did with the other books and make them available for less than Amazon sells them - and signed etc.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 12:52

We need a slip opinion of your podcasts... :)

Without listening, my advice is always to send the full amount to the lien holder and let the lien holder refund to the seller. If the seller is unwilling to do that, there are lots of other cars you can buy. Of course, you verified from the lien holder the amount of the lien. It takes about a week.

I’ll have to pick up your Tucker book - we’ve had spirited discussions about Tucker, so I can’t wait to thoroughly trash it and you on the internet learn all sorts of things about Tucker. ;-)

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon
05/19/2016 at 12:53

Liens can be tricky. <-[synopsis]

Trash my book? Get in line!

Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > Urambo Tauro
05/19/2016 at 12:53

I really need to do this on my car. I didn’t think about it when I moved to NY, so the new NY title still has the lien (long since paid off) from when it was originally titled in MO. That, and I’m not sure where the original LTS document got off to (I looked later). Probably need to contact Toyota Financial again and see if they can just issue me a new one. Still debating if it’s worth it, though - there’s good odds I eventually trade it in some time a couple years down the road at a Toyota dealership for a new car anyway :/

CalzoneGolem > jimz
05/19/2016 at 12:53

Prophet of hoon > jimz
05/19/2016 at 12:54

One of my biggest cases was a dealership that eventually had its principles go to jail for loan-floating (where they get the money from the loan on the new car but don’t pay off the trade in for 60 days).

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 12:56

In Washington they have 60 days to pay off the trade, some dealerships will float themselves a 60 day loan on that amount hoping that they sell the trade in. Really sucks for them if the dealer they sell to is playing the same game. It’s a really good way for the principles to end up in jail.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 12:57

Heh, I shouldn’t say this but I’ve had a chance to peruse your turbine book and think you might just have the ability to be a good lawyer... you’re a darn good word masher.

jimz > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 12:59

Trash my book? Get in line!

Too many notes words.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 12:59

Wouldn’t it be simpler to get your autograph on Court documents? After all, the “before they were famous” stuff from folks like Prince are always worth more than the stuff after they did whatever they did to be famous.

jimz > CalzoneGolem
05/19/2016 at 13:00

I have that album. It’s...

it’s pretty much exactly what I would expect Les Claypool to do.

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon
05/19/2016 at 13:00

Wow. That seems like it is just asking for trouble. I have had one or two clients who traded in vehicles and the dealer simply never paid off the loan. And then sold the car somehow to someone who was driving it around. While my client was being slammed on their credit ratings . . .

SteveLehto > jimz
05/19/2016 at 13:00

Hey - this one has pictures!

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon
05/19/2016 at 13:01

My secretary signed a LOT of my stuff. You’d have a hard time proving any of it was real.

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon
05/19/2016 at 13:02

Actually, where I shine is when I speak. You need to see me making an oratorical flourish in front of a courtroom (using phrases like that one!)

graham > Urambo Tauro
05/19/2016 at 13:03

In some states, such as MD, there is a fee to remove the lien statement on the title from a paid-off loan, and the new title without the lien is actually branded as a “duplicate title”. So Carfax, etc will then flag it as an anomaly. That said, I’ve always told prospective buyers that I’d be happy to give them an unencumbered title as long as they are ok with the “duplicate title” issue.

the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:12

Not Related Dept: Richard Sias, the stylist of the masterpiece 2nd gen Charger, is finally getting the recognition he deserves. (Thanks for nothing, Old Fart Top Gear where they gave the credit to Sias’ boss.) Mr. Sias is to be honored at the Chrysler Nats at Carlisle , which will be held July 15-17.

If I lived in that section of the country, I’d attend. Since you used to own a ‘69, couldn’t resist apprising you.

SteveLehto > the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy
05/19/2016 at 13:14

I love that body style, both in civilian trim and in Daytona trim.

ramajastang > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:17

Have the buyer go to their bank, seller goes with, deal is done, bank pays off lien and gets title and handles updatesupdates, seller gets the amount above whatever the payoff sent to the bank is, once bank gets title and updates it, buyer pays off bank (or keeps loan open).

sklooner > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:20

In Canada we get the draft payable to seller and lender- then let them fight it out- have an aquaintance who wrote off car- insurance company paid her the whole ball of wax and she partied it away. Some folks rely on the statement ‘free of all liens and encumbrances’ and dont bother to check- my brother in law being one- he was surprised when the bailiff came to take the truck he paid cash for

RallyWrench > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:21

I’m in for a signed copy of the Tucker book, really looking forward to it.

CalzoneGolem > jimz
05/19/2016 at 13:24

I love all the versions on this album except for Jerry Was A Race Car Driver.

Miata26 > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:27

Great stuff. The last private party vehicle we bought had a lien and we were getting a loan for the purchase, so our credit union handled dealing with their bank, payoff, etc. It’s been a while so I don’t remember the exact details, but it was quite painless for both sides.

SteveLehto > ramajastang
05/19/2016 at 13:28

Except for the times that won’t work. But thanks for trying.

Mercedes Streeter > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:32

You bet I’ll be picking up one!!! :D

ateamfan42 > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:33

On the subject of your books, I’m presently part way through Drawn to Injustice . Wow, what a read. I’m astonished at every step just how terribly the law enforcement and legal system can fail a person— and honestly a little frightened.

SteveLehto > ateamfan42
05/19/2016 at 13:36

It is an amazing story. It ended well but Tim spent 10 years in prison. He’s a great guy and he handled it pretty well but it is scary.

SheRockOh > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:42

Have you considered a coffee table book companion to the ‘tubine book’? Being able to see large format pictures from concept to engineering drawings to press photos would interest me.

j > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:44

This should be required of all driver’s ed classes.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:45

It does ask for trouble, but seriously, you expected the law to keep criminals from breaking it? other than one, very notable example, the issue of not-paying-off-in-time doesn’t come up often at all.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:46

the artist formerly known as Lehto?

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:47

why do I suddenly remember this quote “if you can’t blind them with brilliance, baffle them with.....” well, you know....

ateamfan42 > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:47

I just finished the parts about the trial, and was surprised some of the arguements his counsel didn’t try to make, and the lies/errors of the procecution that were not attempted to be corrected in closing statements. I don’t have any legal training, but I felt like I noticed a lot of places his defense could have done better.

To be fair, they had the disadvantage of not being given full disclosure about all the information the procecution had available.

Stevie Welles > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:48

Haven’t listened yet, but one option is to use a unsecured loan (if you qualify) to pay off the lien before sale. I’ve used Lightstream loans for cars before and it is a ridiculously pain-free option for unsecured loans. Rates are slightly higher, but could be could for quick turnaround. Get a refinance loan, pay off original lien-holder, sell the car with clean title, pay off the refinance loan.

SteveLehto > SheRockOh
05/19/2016 at 13:48

There was a guy working on something like that so I just figured I’d wait until his came out. So far, nothing.

It would be cool but I don’t know if I could get a publisher to put it out. Seems like it might be too much of a niche book (although I agree; it would be cool.)

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon
05/19/2016 at 13:49

Well, the laws tend to be written in ways that don’t actually invite people to break them. At least, that’s what I hope. . . .

ronmler3 > Prophet of hoon
05/19/2016 at 13:50

enough!! It’s “principals!!”

You’re an attorney?!?!

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon
05/19/2016 at 13:50

I love the guys who have a signature block that says, “Dictated but not read,” and then it is signed with a stamp.

Wait - can I count on this or not?

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon
05/19/2016 at 13:51

Which is one step better than simply raising your voice when you realize you are losing the argument.

SteveLehto > ateamfan42
05/19/2016 at 13:52

That’s a very good and valid point. I spoke with his defense team and they could have gone either way on that. In a way, it was strategy. If it had worked then they would have looked like geniuses. Kind of hard to second-guess it after the fact.

SteveLehto > Stevie Welles
05/19/2016 at 13:53

I’m embarassed to admit I had not thought of that. It’s a good idea that would smooth out the transaction if the seller was willing to do it.

Tacofan > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:54

Getting ready to do this with a motorcycle so the values are smaller but I’m getting a personal loan from my bank to pay off the bike loan. When I get the title, I can sell the bike, pay off the bank loan, pocket the profit and get a cheaper bike.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:58

If they don’t see it your way then they MUST be deaf ;)

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 13:59

As much as you can count on anything else?

Prophet of hoon > ronmler3
05/19/2016 at 14:01

Principal is one person, principles is for when someone, unknown, makes decisions but it could be any of a number of decisionmakers. In short, we’re saying the rule is unlawful - but the person in charge didn’t make it.... In that case, it was a state senator who owned the company, but no one could tell us who, exactly, decided to not pay off the cars in a timely manner. So we fought the illegal rule, the principle.

the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 14:02

And here’s Edmunds, the car authority, declaring the ‘69 Charger to be Chrysler’s all-time best styled car .

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 14:03

Instructions unclear, bought used car with lion.

Kinja'd!!!

ifly737NG > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 14:03

I recently sold a car that we weren’t upside down on, but had a lien. The buyer was also financing - his bank certified/return receipt mailed the payoff portion to my bank, and they cut me a check for the rest. It was all fun and games until my bank (Chase Auto Finance) managed to lose the payoff check after they signed for it. After a few very heated phone discussions, they found it... But it was still a pain and took a couple weeks. I would say it’s the safest way to do it though, that way the buyer has the security knowing that I never touched his money, and I have the security of seeing my copy of his bank’s check made out to my bank. Just hope your bank isn’t a bunch of incompetent asshats.

Also Chase Auto Finance can die in a fire. What a bunch of idiots.

Seriously.

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon
05/19/2016 at 14:07

Why not just sign it, “Eh, take this for what it’s worth.”

SteveLehto > the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy
05/19/2016 at 14:08

I wouldn’t argue with that although I admit I also like the Viper.

SteveLehto > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
05/19/2016 at 14:08

You must remove the lion BEFORE purchase.

MemphisSlim > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 14:18

Steve - You misspelled the title of your book below the video up there, assuming that’s of any concern to you.

jimz > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 14:18

can you put that in proper “legalese?” not enough “Whereas” and “The Undersigned.”

jimz > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 14:20

yeah, I’d wager a lot of crooked dealers are “stressed” financially. It’s like in racing. Guy I know drives an Unlimited Hydroplane, and he made the observation that “cheaters almost never win, they usually run mid-pack at best.”

jimz > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 14:22

If you have the facts on your side, pound on the facts. if you have the law on your side, pound on the law. if you have neither, pound on the table.

jimz > Tacofan
05/19/2016 at 14:25

how does that work? It doesn’t seem to me that you could use the motorcycle as collateral for the personal loan since it’s collateral for the original loan.

the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 14:27

Then you must love that Autotrader ad where the Duke Boys 1.0 trade in the General Lee for a Viper.

SteveLehto > MemphisSlim
05/19/2016 at 14:31

I know. But once it’s up, editing is a bitch. But thanks for noticing!

bison78 > ramajastang
05/19/2016 at 14:58

This worked for me when buying a car. We both went to my credit union. The credit union paid off the seller’s loan, handled all the DMV paperwork and issued a new loan for my purchase of the car.

bison78 > bison78
05/19/2016 at 14:58

Out of the gray, please???????

Tacofan > jimz
05/19/2016 at 15:03

That’s just it, the personal loan doesn’t require collateral. It’s just a set amount with a payment schedule. You could also do a home equity loan instead of a personal loan and get the same result.

dmat > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 15:31

I can say that your hypothecial did actually happen to me. decided to buy the car, got the money from my back, went to his lean holder, paid off the lean, got the paperwork, went and got the title from the holding company or whatever it was called. And got all the paperwork saying the car was mine within 30 minutes of deciding to buy the car. That car ended up being a money sink that I got rid of a little over a year later but it all went fairly easy.

HolyShi > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 15:58

Where was this article 3 weeks ago!? I literally just did this myself. Had a lien on my car, sold it, while simultaneously buying another one.

Worked out alright, but man what a headache.

SteveLehto > HolyShi
05/19/2016 at 16:36

Ever hear odd noises from your microwave? I’ve been eavesdropping on you (and others) trying to come up with story ideas.

Thanks.

Just whatever you do, Don’t unplug the microwave at night!

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > jimz
05/19/2016 at 16:43

“I traded in my Ram on a new truck at a Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep dealer (named after a particular bridge to Canada.)“

Whirlpool bridge?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whirlpool…

:-)

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 17:06

as much as I’d love to sign “as sworn to me by my client on a stack of whatever he considers holy” the Court has indicated a dislike of such negativity.

StingrayJake > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 17:16

I love the Tucker story. I need your book.

SteveLehto > StingrayJake
05/19/2016 at 17:23

I should have some to sell within a week. Stay tuned.

Mike > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 18:00

In California, I am not sure if this is all the time, but often the actual title stays with the lender, not the buyer, so there is not title to sign over.

A few years ago I bought a 350z. The guy wanted $6000, which was a pretty good price for the condition, but he owed $5000 on it still. His plan was for me to give him the $6000, he would pay off the car, and when he got the title in a coupe weeks, he would sign it over to me and give me the car.

Now, I didn’t like letting him “rent” the car he just sold me until he got the title anymore than I liked giving someone 6 grand for just a bill of sale. So I politely told him “If I am going to give you $6000, I am not leaving without a car.”

What we ended up doing is basically your ideal situation: We went to his credit union, I handed the loan officer $5000, then had the loan officer release the title to MY NAME (basically, inform the DMV the lien was satisfied and I was to be the new real owner), then I handed the seller $1000. The DMV then simply issued me the title. Totally drama free. I would not buy a car that was still owed on any other way.

Mike > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 18:05

Funny you mention “upside down”. There was a guy on craigslist recently posting his 08 Fit for $1300 to take over payments. He still owed like $9600 on it. Now, an 08 Fit sells for $7000 on average in similar condition, so this guy was already $2600 underwater.

He legitimately wanted someone to pay him $1300 for the right to over pay an additional $2600 on his car; basically, we was trying to sell a $7000 for, effectively, almost 11 grand.

Now, I don’t know if he is just really bad at math, or just blatantly defiant to logic in favor of personal gain, but I assume a little of both. He seemed to have a total lack of understanding that to get rid of his car, it would COST him $2500, not profit him $1300.

Mike > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 18:10

So there is one other lien type I have dealt with, and that is a mechanic’s lien. A shop was trying to offload a car for really cheap as it had been in a light front end accident and the owner simply stopped responding. The shop had the appropriate paperwork that I simply took to the DMV and everything worked out fine.

Lien sales are certainly a little tricky and open to scamming, but as long as you cross all of your T’s and dot all your I’s, it can be financially beneficial, but I recommend doing everything in person.

Mike > the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy
05/19/2016 at 18:13

Good. That car is my dream car, I would take it over any Ferrari or supercar out there. That is why I have one in my garage. Now if I could just get it running....

Mike > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 18:14

I can’t believe you sold yours ;)

SteveLehto > Mike
05/19/2016 at 18:37

That was a long time ago.

jimz > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
05/19/2016 at 19:14

Wrong state :p

Mike > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 19:40

Ever consider getting another one?

SteveLehto > Mike
05/19/2016 at 19:47

Somewhere down the road maybe. Or I might clone a Daytona. That way I wouldn’t feel bad driving it.

Mike > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 20:00

Haha. Mike Musto did that. I look forward to seeing it one day. Not enough of these cars on the road any more :(

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > SteveLehto
05/19/2016 at 21:41

I once had to deal with a lean on a car...

Kinja'd!!!

I got rid of the problem by telling the guy to get lost...

:-)

Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes > SteveLehto
05/20/2016 at 06:57

Youre looking quite young in the photo up top!

So far there seems to be 2 general types of liens I’ve ran into. Either where the owner is in possession, or a tow company/other third party. Are there any positives or negatives to dealing with one or the other? I can imagine an uncooperative owner if dealing with a tow company. (Full disclosure:most of these have been 8 series BMWs located in CA. I’m located in OR so probably a terrible idea either way but I’m truly curious if there’s money to be made off these old “big coupes” with lien titles. I’ve always wanted one, but locally I’d expect to pay about triple the price, for a car that quite frankly, doesn’t perform.)

SteveLehto > Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes
05/20/2016 at 08:47

That’s what 54 years of hiding indoors looks like!

You mean a mechanic’s lien (or related, where someone has the lien through legal process and not because of financing)? Those can be tricky because they can be disputed. Also, a lot of tow yards and so on don’t do the paperwork properly. You might have problems acquiring such a car if the previous owner comes by later and claims it.

the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy > Mike
05/20/2016 at 12:07

I assume “that car” is a ‘69 Charger. Keep this in mind when you blow money getting it back on the road. 1) If you don’t go hog-wild with expensive parts, blah-blah, you will get your money back when you sell it. 2) When you drive it, people will go batshit nuts when they see it. Does a Vette or a even a Ferrari get that reaction? Hell no.

It’s so worth it owning a second gen Charger—especially the ‘69—the best looking of the three 2nd gens.

Mike > the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy
05/20/2016 at 15:00

It’s so worth it owning a second gen Charger—especially the ‘69—the best looking of the three 2nd gens.

Absolutely agree! After I sell My Le Mans project, all profit is going into getting it running.

I am never planning on selling it. It’s already a bit of a bastard: The stock 383 is long gone and replaced with a HP 440 block that needs a total rebuild, there is rust repair to be done, and the wiring is literally the worst I have ever seen (fuse box is in the glove box being held together with alligator clips and there is a battery cable running through the wheel well.). No fender tag and who knows what the original color was.

In any event, not a number’s matching, showroom restoration candidate, so I am not overly concerned with keeping its value up or worrying about resale or originality. Not sure what direction I am going to go with it honestly, but I am thinking resto-mod.

the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy > Mike
05/20/2016 at 17:20

My Charger is a mutt, but it’s my mutt. It now has halogen headlights, LEDs everywhere else for exterior lights, electronic ignition, 4-wheel disc brakes (for god’s sake: do NOT keep drums on yours), a 440 hi-perf motor that came out of cop car along with the 727, huge sway bars front and back (it actually handles decently now), and an exhaust with 2.5" pipes complete with an H-pipe.

So my Charger isn’t an R/T clone, it’s an R/T+ . If I had a wife that said it’s her or the car, it’s the car that gets the nod.

Mike > the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy
05/20/2016 at 18:24

Luckily, my girl actually will NOT allow me to sell mine. My car will likely end up being a mutt as well. It’s got factory (non power) discs up front, but they are those single piston ones, so they will likely go.

I would like to get the RMS Alterktion front suspension coil over kit for it, but that is money. Also will need to do a manual swap... I have a Magnum T-56 for it, but that will be interesting to jury rig in there.

As for engine. I don’t know. It’s not an R/T so doesn’t matter. Maybe a newer motor? Pulling the valley pan off my 440 revealed part of a main stud in the valley.... that’s... like... really bad, especially considering an RB block has a fairly open cam from the top of the motor. Doesn’t look like it ever messed with the cam, but likely I, at least, busted a main stud and spun a bearing in the process. In any event, it’s probably a pretty major rebuild... don’t know what is salvageable yet.

Steve, I apologize if I am being over Tangential in your post!!!

the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy > Mike
05/20/2016 at 21:41

We’re having fun going back ‘n’ forth. I’m sure Former Charger Owner doesn’t mind. 1) If I met such a woman, I’d marry her in a heart beat—good for you. 2) Sounds like the 440 is toast and I’d recc finding another. After all, big blocks sound so good. And all that torque at such low RPMs is such a blast.

LJSearles > SteveLehto
05/21/2016 at 22:35

What about selling a car with a lien, that has had the debt attached to it wiped out through bankruptcy?

SteveLehto > LJSearles
05/22/2016 at 09:45

I’ve never dealt with that. I’ve seen it where the debtor reaffirms the debt and keeps the car but that then becomes the same as a typical lien again